M5stack.com makes a whole bunch of ESP32 modules with display, enclosures, batteries, etc already integrated, and they're cheap and robust. You can get one with a built-in keyboard for $30.
Oh wow, had no idea. I like their products, have a bunch of sensors and liking the ease of use. Most recently got the SCD41 co2 sensors to migrate away from all the crappy cloud-based sensors, and works great!
For the more budget concious - you can get ESP32 modules with USB C, Wifi/BT and a few IO pins from AliExpress for $4. These things are amazingly cheap.
Agree, but M5stack devices also start at $5 and come with a case. Add $10 or 15 and you can get a device with a screen, accelerometer, buttons, microphone, and more. No soldering required.
Which of theirs is the most comparible to the flipper zero? Besides the cool looking Cardputer it is quite hard to make sense of their product lineup and compare features.
The big advantage of the FlipperZero is the community developing software. This seems to be a based on a different chip. Does the Flipper software run natively on this, or do we need to port everything?
I find my FlipperZero is a super fun tool for exploring stuff I'm even vaguely curious about, which I can then use to design/build things I want.
Both my motorcycles now have about $8 worth of AliExpress parts including a CC1101 rf module hooked top to the high beam globe, so I can just flash my hi beams at the garage door and it opens via 433MHz magic. It was super easy to know how to build that when I'd experimented with "listening" to the keychain garage door opener with the FZ, and playing back the signal at the garage door. To get from there to a first prototype with a CC1101 module and an Arduino, then a second prototype with a CC1101 and an AT-Tiny installed on a bike was so obviously just going to work that it was a heap of fun. Without the "instant gratification" of being able to record the garage door opener key fob with the FZ and play it back to open the door, and the knowledge that the FZ did that just by using a inexpensive microcontroller driving a CC1101 module itself, I'd probably never even done more than wonder about how to do it.
Yep. Non rolling code garage doors seem to be ubiquitous in rental properties here (Sydney Australia).
Rolling codes are better. But if you haven't seen it, Samy Kamkar has a device called Roll Jam, take a look at the last ~5 mins of this Defcon23 talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNgvShN4USU
(The TL;DR of the trick there is: Jam the radio signal a key fob sends so a car/garage fairly wide band receiver can't hear it. At the same time listen with a better tuned receiver. Wait for someone to press their key fob and record the code, then wait for them to press it again and record the second code - then stop jamming and replay the 1st code you captured. Door opens and person goes through. But you now have a valid second rolling code that will work. You can do this with a Teensy3 and two CC1101 modules, about $40 worth of hardware.)
Much more usable if this will target directly the LILYGO T3 and T3/S3. One would optionally add more hardware if needed to support the IR blaster, NFC and so forth, but the LoRa chip is already included.
Side note that I learned the hard way; once you buy a Flipper Zero and get bored with it, they are very, very hard to sell. Both eBay and Facebook Marketplace seem to not allow them to be sold, and simply asking around doesn't do much.
I got mine awhile ago, played with it, did what I wanted to do and lost interest as I moved on to other things. So now I have a costly device knocking around in a drawer.
You are paying for a complete package that you can fit in your pocket.
This is still at breadboard stage. If you want to put something together for yourself at sub $35 you can. It's just not going to be portable, pretty, or probably even usable. I carry my flipper zero everywhere for a variety of tasks.
The flipper zero isn't doing anything special that you we haven't been able to do for decades with a variety of parts.
* SubGHZ, you need an RF module.
* Bluetooth? yep
* IR, you need IR,
* network, hey WiFi.
* SD card for any kind of storage? yep, another module
* USB anything but charging? Yep, more wires and modules.
But hey, most devices want at least 4 wires (VCC/GND/A FEW SIGNALs), and other devices want more, to handle clocks and timing. And that's only if your thing supports IC2 and you have enough GPIO. Otherwise you need multiplexers.
Any one of these things can be done with less than a dollar in parts. But have fun combining them all into something workable AND can do them all.
But hey, you are paying for the software right?? Come on.
The complete package is far more valuable because of the software that drives it. More valuable than not needing to solder the wires is not needing to figure out how to make the IR blaster do useful work by editing code. Because if it was just the hardware, the moat discouraging a non-open source competitor wouldn't exist and there would be competition already.
> You are paying for a complete package that you can fit in your pocket.
Yeah. I've got raspberry pis, and some USB Wi-Fi adaptors specifically bought for having monitor mode, and a few different RTL-SDRs, and a HackRF One, and an Ubertooth One.
But I'm _way_ more likely to have my FlipperZero with me when my curiosity is piqued while out somewhere. I'll often have it in my pocket to use as the world's most expensive tv-b-gone.
Not really a successor, they’re different chip lines (more I/O, video engine, more hardware crypto stuff but no wireless capabilities we all know and love from Espressif)
Hmm, I had missed that. Perhaps the C line (e.g. C6) would be more suited.
Espressif CEO expressed commitment to RISC-V (now already years ago) and they've stopped releasing new chips with tensilica ISA.
As the ecosystem, toolchains and such aren't comparable to that of RISC-V and this gap will only widen, they really shouldn't be selected for new designs.
C line isn’t also very comparable: single (C-series) vs dual core (S3), and S3 has USB-OTG capabilities whereas C6 only has USB-JTAG.
Tensilica ESPs aren’t formally in NRND stage as of right now, for some usages they’re still the only choice, even if RISC-V is clearly the path forward.
Does anyone know what the legality of these are? Can you get in trouble just for purchasing things like flipper zero? Or just for using them in some way?
Depends on your country. Usually it's the action of using it for specific things that are illegal, not just purchasing/owning it. But if you're caught breaking into an office with it, I'm sure many countries' courts would see that as additional tooling for the break in, for example.
Your country may be of relevance to the question, but in most countries owning or using a flipper or similar, provided you do not interfere with devices you do not own, will not cause issues.
Transmissions are pretty tightly regulated in most countries. Receiving less so but those laws can be pretty catch-all. Unless you enjoy static noise you're probably intercepting something and thus potentially running afoul of lawful interception rules.
Exactly laws & whether anyone cares are ofc dependent on your country
It's probably not illegal to own in most countries, but nevertheless won't be the smartest move to actively getting involved with it, the idea around it is just too malicious.
> For the moment the only option is to make capibaraZero with a breadboard but we are working on a PCB to make device more portable.
Radically low-cost, can't disagree :)
PCB files are actually available: https://github.com/CapibaraZero/resources/tree/main/PCB/
OTOH it's nice to be able to literally see every part, and how they are connected.
Remember hardware != software. These PCBs may still be WIP.
M5stack.com makes a whole bunch of ESP32 modules with display, enclosures, batteries, etc already integrated, and they're cheap and robust. You can get one with a built-in keyboard for $30.
Espressif(the ESP* company) bought M5Stack earlier this year. So M5 products are basically official ESP* reference platform.
Oh wow, had no idea. I like their products, have a bunch of sensors and liking the ease of use. Most recently got the SCD41 co2 sensors to migrate away from all the crappy cloud-based sensors, and works great!
For the more budget concious - you can get ESP32 modules with USB C, Wifi/BT and a few IO pins from AliExpress for $4. These things are amazingly cheap.
Agree, but M5stack devices also start at $5 and come with a case. Add $10 or 15 and you can get a device with a screen, accelerometer, buttons, microphone, and more. No soldering required.
Which of theirs is the most comparible to the flipper zero? Besides the cool looking Cardputer it is quite hard to make sense of their product lineup and compare features.
The big advantage of the FlipperZero is the community developing software. This seems to be a based on a different chip. Does the Flipper software run natively on this, or do we need to port everything?
I find my FlipperZero is a super fun tool for exploring stuff I'm even vaguely curious about, which I can then use to design/build things I want.
Both my motorcycles now have about $8 worth of AliExpress parts including a CC1101 rf module hooked top to the high beam globe, so I can just flash my hi beams at the garage door and it opens via 433MHz magic. It was super easy to know how to build that when I'd experimented with "listening" to the keychain garage door opener with the FZ, and playing back the signal at the garage door. To get from there to a first prototype with a CC1101 module and an Arduino, then a second prototype with a CC1101 and an AT-Tiny installed on a bike was so obviously just going to work that it was a heap of fun. Without the "instant gratification" of being able to record the garage door opener key fob with the FZ and play it back to open the door, and the knowledge that the FZ did that just by using a inexpensive microcontroller driving a CC1101 module itself, I'd probably never even done more than wonder about how to do it.
> “listening" to the keychain garage door opener with the FZ, and playing back the signal
That would only work with older garage doors that don’t use rolling codes, wouldn’t it?
Yep. Non rolling code garage doors seem to be ubiquitous in rental properties here (Sydney Australia).
Rolling codes are better. But if you haven't seen it, Samy Kamkar has a device called Roll Jam, take a look at the last ~5 mins of this Defcon23 talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNgvShN4USU
(The TL;DR of the trick there is: Jam the radio signal a key fob sends so a car/garage fairly wide band receiver can't hear it. At the same time listen with a better tuned receiver. Wait for someone to press their key fob and record the code, then wait for them to press it again and record the second code - then stop jamming and replay the 1st code you captured. Door opens and person goes through. But you now have a valid second rolling code that will work. You can do this with a Teensy3 and two CC1101 modules, about $40 worth of hardware.)
How old that door can be? 30 years old? Even in the EU we installed rolling codes 30 years ago
30 years is new construction in US standards.
Yep! That’s an unfortunately (or fortunately, for the hacker unconcerned with garage theft) the vast bulk of installed garage doors.
I'm surprised there aren't any binary compatible clones of the FZ.
Much more usable if this will target directly the LILYGO T3 and T3/S3. One would optionally add more hardware if needed to support the IR blaster, NFC and so forth, but the LoRa chip is already included.
Good to see some competition, the FlipperZero is very pricey for what it is. Then again, I guess you're paying for the software.
Side note that I learned the hard way; once you buy a Flipper Zero and get bored with it, they are very, very hard to sell. Both eBay and Facebook Marketplace seem to not allow them to be sold, and simply asking around doesn't do much.
I got mine awhile ago, played with it, did what I wanted to do and lost interest as I moved on to other things. So now I have a costly device knocking around in a drawer.
You are paying for a complete package that you can fit in your pocket.
This is still at breadboard stage. If you want to put something together for yourself at sub $35 you can. It's just not going to be portable, pretty, or probably even usable. I carry my flipper zero everywhere for a variety of tasks.
The flipper zero isn't doing anything special that you we haven't been able to do for decades with a variety of parts.
* SubGHZ, you need an RF module.
* Bluetooth? yep
* IR, you need IR,
* network, hey WiFi.
* SD card for any kind of storage? yep, another module
* USB anything but charging? Yep, more wires and modules.
But hey, most devices want at least 4 wires (VCC/GND/A FEW SIGNALs), and other devices want more, to handle clocks and timing. And that's only if your thing supports IC2 and you have enough GPIO. Otherwise you need multiplexers.
Any one of these things can be done with less than a dollar in parts. But have fun combining them all into something workable AND can do them all.
But hey, you are paying for the software right?? Come on.
The complete package is far more valuable because of the software that drives it. More valuable than not needing to solder the wires is not needing to figure out how to make the IR blaster do useful work by editing code. Because if it was just the hardware, the moat discouraging a non-open source competitor wouldn't exist and there would be competition already.
> You are paying for a complete package that you can fit in your pocket.
Yeah. I've got raspberry pis, and some USB Wi-Fi adaptors specifically bought for having monitor mode, and a few different RTL-SDRs, and a HackRF One, and an Ubertooth One.
But I'm _way_ more likely to have my FlipperZero with me when my curiosity is piqued while out somewhere. I'll often have it in my pocket to use as the world's most expensive tv-b-gone.
I wish this functionality was in Watchy v3 (https://watchy.sqfmi.com/), which is also based on EPS32-S3
Cute, but I'll wait for the ESP32-P4 version (RISC-V successor to the now deprecated S line).
Not really a successor, they’re different chip lines (more I/O, video engine, more hardware crypto stuff but no wireless capabilities we all know and love from Espressif)
Hmm, I had missed that. Perhaps the C line (e.g. C6) would be more suited.
Espressif CEO expressed commitment to RISC-V (now already years ago) and they've stopped releasing new chips with tensilica ISA.
As the ecosystem, toolchains and such aren't comparable to that of RISC-V and this gap will only widen, they really shouldn't be selected for new designs.
C line isn’t also very comparable: single (C-series) vs dual core (S3), and S3 has USB-OTG capabilities whereas C6 only has USB-JTAG.
Tensilica ESPs aren’t formally in NRND stage as of right now, for some usages they’re still the only choice, even if RISC-V is clearly the path forward.
But it has no bluetooth or WIFI.
is S3 depeecated?
Thank you
Does anyone know what the legality of these are? Can you get in trouble just for purchasing things like flipper zero? Or just for using them in some way?
Depends on your country. Usually it's the action of using it for specific things that are illegal, not just purchasing/owning it. But if you're caught breaking into an office with it, I'm sure many countries' courts would see that as additional tooling for the break in, for example.
Your country may be of relevance to the question, but in most countries owning or using a flipper or similar, provided you do not interfere with devices you do not own, will not cause issues.
Transmissions are pretty tightly regulated in most countries. Receiving less so but those laws can be pretty catch-all. Unless you enjoy static noise you're probably intercepting something and thus potentially running afoul of lawful interception rules.
Exactly laws & whether anyone cares are ofc dependent on your country
Flipper Zero was banned in at least one country: Brazil.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/03/flipper-zero-devices-b...
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/brazil-seizin...
It's probably not illegal to own in most countries, but nevertheless won't be the smartest move to actively getting involved with it, the idea around it is just too malicious.
What are you even on about, mate? A hacker's multi tool with infinite potential for exploration is an idea "too malicious" to consider?